Booked on Planning

Meet Me at the Library

• Booked on Planning • Season 4 • Episode 6

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Libraries have always been pillars of knowledge in our communities, but their role is evolving far beyond book repositories. As author Shamichael Hallman reveals, these vital public institutions now serve as rare neutral spaces where people from all backgrounds can gather, connect, and rebuild the civic muscles we've lost in our increasingly polarized society.

What makes libraries uniquely positioned for this work? First, they offer something increasingly rare—barrier-free indoor public spaces where anyone can enter regardless of income, education, or background. In an era of commercial third places that require purchases, libraries welcome everyone with no expectation beyond respectful coexistence. Second, libraries already function as spaces of sharing, from books to meeting rooms to specialized equipment. Finally, their commitment to neutrality and free access to diverse perspectives creates safe environments for exploring ideas without judgment.

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Stephanie Rouse:

This episode is brought to you by Confluence. Confluence is a professional consulting firm comprised of landscape architects, urban designers and planners. Their staff of 70 plus includes 39 licensed landscape architects and AICP certified planners. Confluence is comprised of energetic, creative and passionate people who are involved in making our communities better places to live. They assist clients on a wide range of public, educational, institutional and private sector projects. You're listening to the Booked On Planning Podcast, a project of the Nebraska chapter of the American Planning Association. In each episode we dive into how cities function by talking with authors on housing, transportation and everything in between. Join us as we get Booked on Planning. Welcome back, bookworms, to another episode of Booked on Planning. We're kicking off Meet Me in May with Shamichael Hallman on his book Meet Me at the Library a place to foster social connection and promote democracy. Stay tuned in two weeks for Meet Me at the Shamichael. even tied the two episodes together with a case study of a library and a mall serving to drive traffic to the shopping center.

Jennifer Hiatt:

Yeah, that was actually such a perfect connection moment. I assume the majority of our listeners love the library almost as much as we do, and this was an excellent conversation around the ways that libraries are changing to meet the needs of their community. If you're at all like I used to be, which is concerned about losing your quiet book repository, don't worry. Books are still at the heart of everything that libraries are doing. Quiet book repository, don't worry.

Stephanie Rouse:

Books are still at the heart of everything that libraries are doing. One key takeaway from the conversation was that librarians, like planners, are constantly looking for new ideas to implement, shifting their approach based on the communities they serve and finding ways to innovate. The library can be a key partner and space for doing this type of work, but it's often overlooked in a lot of our planning efforts today.

Jennifer Hiatt:

We touch on the fact that libraries are an excellent place to redevelop the soft skills around learning how to communicate and debate ideas with other people. As planners, we have firsthand knowledge at public hearings and community engagement sessions about how the breakdown of these skills is negatively impacting how we plan and engage with those we most need to hear from, so it was refreshing to hear how libraries are playing a role to reteach those skills.

Stephanie Rouse:

And there were a number of really great examples of unique programming from this book and several that we touched on in the episode. One of the most interesting programs that I thought we discussed was the human library. One library gathered a bunch of individuals with varied backgrounds that could be, quote unquote, checked out by individuals to have a conversation with someone that they wouldn't normally come across in their daily lives. It's a way to really bridge the divide and the safety of the library.

Jennifer Hiatt:

Yeah, that was a really interesting example, and we also discussed the ways that people can help support their local libraries. So let's get into our conversation with author Shamichael Hallman on his book Meet Me at the Library A Place to Foster Social Connection and Promote Democracy.

Stephanie Rouse:

Well, Shamichael, thank you for joining us on Booked on Planning to talk about your book. Meet Me at the Library A Place to Foster Social Connection and Promote Democracy. You have a background working in libraries, so you're very well versed in this. But what elements or characteristics of libraries make them suited to reach these goals?

Shamichael Hallman:

Well, first, thanks so much for having me. And there are a number of things that come to mind when I think about the role of the library or the ability of the library of bringing communities together, connecting communities together, bridging communities, and the first thing that comes to mind really is the library as a place and the very low barrier that exists within the library. So think about the library as a place where really anybody can show up. It doesn't matter your education level, your socioeconomic background. The library is a place where you can just be, and there aren't a lot of places left like that. Particularly, we think about public indoor places where that's actually possible.

Shamichael Hallman:

And so, at the sort of very basic level, I think it is this role of the library as a place. But then you think about the sort of other element of the library that libraries are already set up to be this place of sharing. It's open to everybody. There are a bunch of resources that are there meeting spaces, books and these sorts of things and so people are already coming and using those things as a public good. And then I might say, lastly, is the relatively neutrality of the library that the library really is promoting free and open access to a diversity of perspectives. So it's really a safe space for people to explore ideas without judgment and to be able to engage in conversation, hopefully also across different viewpoints. So when you look at some of those things the neutrality of the space, the publicness of the space it's really right for this ability to connect communities in a very real and authentic way.

Jennifer Hiatt:

Stephanie touched on this a little bit, but can you share with us your background and how you came into this work, because I felt like it was such an important part of the story.

Shamichael Hallman:

Yes, so my background is not in public libraries. I don't have, like many people, I don't have the library of science degree, which I think is actually pretty crucial for folks to have. My background is actually in technology and ministry, specifically before the library work, like, for instance, you know, in the ministry, storytelling is very important. You know that we're on stage each and every Sunday trying to convey a message of hope and strength and encouragement, resilience, and these things translate very well when you're out in the community and you're talking and advocating on behalf of the library.

Shamichael Hallman:

Another thing that you know is almost sort of paramount in the ministry is that it's sort of how you view people. Everyone, the part of the church or the part of the ministry you recognize has some gift, some skill, some talent that you know makes them very, you know, unique and of value to the community, and this is so important in terms of like sort of community engagement. Right, and so you know, one of the things that I was able to do I think maybe a little bit easier than some professionally trained libraries was to get into the community very quickly and not only understand how we might be able to serve them, but to also understand how they could be a part of the journey, and I think it's one of the things that made us very, very successful.

Stephanie Rouse:

Jennifer and I, we obviously have a podcast on books and we're lovers of books and libraries and my husband always teases me that anytime I come home from the library he asks if I was at my favorite place in the world. So we've noticed some changing trends in libraries as spaces that they're not just these quiet places where you go to read alone, but they're actually evolving into more interactive places to seek social connections. Can you talk about some of these major changes and how libraries are going about this?

Shamichael Hallman:

Sure, and I think it's important, as we have this conversation, to recognize and to acknowledge that public libraries have always made pivots, that it's an institution that is always evolving, even though our minds may sort of immediately go to the books and the quietness of the space. When we look at the history of libraries, we can see, for instance, even in, say, 1905, you have the first bookmobile that's actually being drawn by a horse carriage. You can bring that all the way up to say, the early 80s and 90s, where libraries are adding internet and computers. I mean, that wasn't always the case giving people access to internet. And then you think about now, when some of the really cool things that are happening in libraries. So, for instance, I'll give you a personal example in Memphis, I worked for the Memphis Public Library from 2017 until 2002. And part of my work was to help oversee the renovation and the reimagining of the downtown branch, and in that branch we've added some really cool features that are there now. If you go visit that branch, first thing is there's a cafe there. I think it just kind of makes sense. You know, playing off of the books and playing off of sort of your classic bookstore vibe that you might get now. Having a cafe in the library actually makes a lot of sense, and so if you walk into that library right now and go to the cafe, you're going to see a variety of menu options priced at all sorts of levels, so it ensures that affordability for people, regardless of their income level. Also, in that library, on the video side video and photography side we've got all sorts of really great equipment there. We've got screen screens, cameras, anything that you need to be able to do a video, make a TikTok video right. A lot of people would use that space, a lot of people who would come to the library, and we had a lot of other equipment that was there as well. For instance, we had heat presses, things that would help people make jewelry. A lot of people would come in and actually make their jewelry or make their T-shirt business, and then they would go into the video space and actually take a picture, you know, so that they could put on their website. So that's something that I think is a growing trend, this makerspace movement.

Shamichael Hallman:

As I was writing the book, I was very interested in learning about how libraries were adding sort of library of themes to their space, and so I found all sorts of really great examples. There's a library in Virginia where you can get fishing poles and car diagnostic kits that you know check out with your library card. I was just in Iowa a couple weeks ago. There's a library there. I have a whole selection of baking pans right. You can butt pan and all sorts of like kind of cake pans that you could get with your library card.

Shamichael Hallman:

It's like, wow, this is actually pretty cool. You can go in here and get this thing and you kind of, as you scan out and look at all the ways, all the things that libraries are doing, kind of in that library thing space, you find all sorts of things sewing machines and sergers that you can get with your library card and that sort of thing is one of the ways that you're seeing libraries sort of step in, be a part of this circular economy, right, and really sort of try to meet needs. Now, what that looks like, I think, from a design perspective, is that you see libraries who are thinking very intentionally about. You know, is there space in our library that's not used or that's underutilized and you know, could we activate that space? Or is there space that is being used a lot in many different ways. How might we think about making this space more flexible so that it could be one thing Tuesday afternoon but then something else Thursday morning, based on what the community actually needs?

Jennifer Hiatt:

So when the University of Nebraska-Lincoln was switching over their library or thinking about working on their library so that it wasn't just a repository for books, I was on the committee that was kind of working on that and I have to admit, at first I was like you can't take my books, what are you talking about? Because I did only think about my library is like where I went and got my books and I sat in a quiet space. But now when you walk into Love Library and see everything that's going on there, it's just really amazing. So I'm glad that I was wrong in this instance.

Shamichael Hallman:

Yeah, yeah, and you make. That's actually a really good point, jennifer. And I want to share one thing there. And you know, when I first because I didn't have that library experience when I first came to the library, I didn't know how to talk about it, right. And so I said, well, hey, if I'm going to be out in the community making presentations to the business owners and to the community, like, I need to be able to understand how to talk about it. So let me figure out how everybody else is talking about it. And the thing that I was hearing this would have been late 17, early 18.

Shamichael Hallman:

The thing that everybody was saying at that moment was oh well, the library is more than a book. And it made a lot of sense based off of what was happening at my library. So that's how I talked about it. Everywhere I went, I was like, oh, the library is more than a book. We've got these recording spaces and we've got a, we've got a performing arts space, we've got a cafe, and it made a lot of sense. It actually got quite a few people in the door. But in the time that I have finished the book, my idea about that has changed a little bit and I now no longer say that the library is more than books. I now say that the library is books and more, because I think in this moment it's very important for us to recognize the fundamental role of the library in providing free and open access to knowledge and information, and how important that is right now for us to be able to engage with the diversity of viewpoints about any topic.

Shamichael Hallman:

Like we need that, and I think the thing that I love about that you can scan the shell, scan the stack and actually find a range of thoughts about that particular topic. You know, whether it's something that maybe you agree with or not, that that range of ideas is there and that is something that not only is the range of things there, but all of those things are free right, and I think that's actually something very important for us to think about, something for us to appreciate about the public library.

Jennifer Hiatt:

I think that's such a great point and it kind of comes back to a different point that you start the book with, which is the emphasis that we are lonely and divided now and even have a Surgeon General's advisory notice that, in fact, americans are right. And this has led to numerous problems, but one of which is the breaking down of relationships, which leads to the mistrust which leads to us wanting to burn books ultimately at the end of the day. So how has this breakdown impacted libraries?

Shamichael Hallman:

It's impacted libraries in a couple ways. The way that I'm most proud that it has impacted libraries is that you are seeing libraries shift how they create and deploy and measure programming right. So, in light of a society that is, or a community that is isolated, that is divided, what you see many library staff doing now, library professors do now say, okay, well, what are, what is the range or the assortment of programs and initiatives and things that I can do that can actually bring people together right? And so I talk about a couple of these things in the book. From a programming perspective, there's this idea of the human library that I actually I saw this at the Mesa County Library System in Grand Junction and this human library is such a beautiful experience.

Shamichael Hallman:

What the library did and it's actually a very heavy list it takes a lot of work. What the library did was they curated about 15 human books. These were people who their lives, for the most part, kind of on the margin. So you might have someone who was a trans individual, someone who was returning from the justice system, you might have had a former gang member, you might have had a single parent, and the library brings these individuals into the building as a book, and then you as a reader can check that person out and sit down in the library in a safe sort of controlled environment and ask questions, you know, and it's like this beautiful moment where number one this is, for some people, a person who represents a lived experience that you just wouldn't interact with, you would never see, you would never be able to have a conversation with somebody like that before, right. And so I think about that from a from a program perspective that's library and saying, hey, we need to be able to create moments where where we can see each other as humans, like we can see the humanity in each other, and so let's go after the sort of programming that would do that.

Shamichael Hallman:

And it's not just programming, it also then opens up in terms of design, right. So what you see from a design perspective is, you know, architects and designers saying, particularly for new builds or for renovations, this community has a story, it has a history, it has a lived experience. How might we embody that history and that culture? Is it through art? Is it through the placement of the building? How do we both be? A place that is both a neighborhood branch but also a destination has a destination sort of quality to it, knowing that if we give it that level of beauty, we give it that destination quality, not only will it attract the people in the neighborhood, but people from other neighborhoods will want to come and hang out here, and that gives us the opportunity to mix, to have some social economic mixing right. So you've got design, you've got programming.

Shamichael Hallman:

Now I might say, lastly, libraries are thinking about sort of how they approach their outreach and their marketing. So another example that I talk about is from the San Jose Public Library, and they ran this really amazing social media campaign called Write to Library hashtag Write to Library and what they were trying to do with this campaign was to show that, hey, this place is for everybody, right? Like regardless of where you live, where you slept last night, what your native language is like, you can come into the library. And that begins to really open up people who might have said, oh, I don't think the library is for me, I don't know if I feel comfortable walking into this place, and so now they're walking into this place, but you've got, I think, a number of levers that can be pulled, and so I would say that's what I'm seeing in terms of the benefit of this sort of current moment.

Shamichael Hallman:

I think the challenge is, of course, as we become more polarized, we become more isolated. It becomes difficult to talk about certain things, right Like we have forgotten how to relate to each other. We have forgotten how to debate. We have forgotten how to debate. We have forgotten how to argue. The issue is not that we're not arguing enough, it's that we're not arguing smarter. There's not a lot of active listening that is involved anymore. It's my point, or your point, is sort of zero-sum thinking, and so that can make having certain conversations in any setting library or otherwise a bit difficult and requires just a level of intentionality and care and thoughtfulness in how you engage in some programs and some activities.

Jennifer Hiatt:

And that sets us up perfectly because, building on those thoughts, you talk about the six pillars of social infrastructure. So can you explain what those are and tell us why they are so important as we learn how to appropriately debate and interact with each other?

Shamichael Hallman:

again, published by the Surgeon General was something that I think was so groundbreaking. I refer back to this report. I still do. I think it's about 90 or so pages, but hundreds of references that provide so much more information for us. One of the things that I really love about that loneliness report by the Surgeon General is it began to shift the conversation about loneliness from solely a personal issue to more of a built environment issue, so that we begin to see that the way that our communities are shaped you know where the library is, where the park is, where the public transit is that these things also play a huge role in how connected people feel. And towards the bottom of that report and for folks who haven't read it, you know, I would encourage you to take a look at that Within the bottom of that report, the Surgeon General lists up the six pillars for social connection, and there are three of them that really deeply hit the role of libraries.

Shamichael Hallman:

So the first pillar is to strengthen social infrastructure in local communities, and here Senator Jenner was saying that, as we just said, that we have to design the built environment to promote social connection. We have to be very mindful of who gets a nice park. Well, they should all be nice. Who gets a nice library? They should all be nice. Where do the bus routes and those sorts of things go? And beyond, you know, having these places that are there the park, the library, the community center, the waterfront what are the programs that actually really lead toward having people more connected? And then, who are the people behind these programs? Right, because it's very easy to think about. I mean, I feel like a lot of the conversation is about the program.

Shamichael Hallman:

Last week I was with the Washington Library Association for their annual conference. I had to close out this conference and I left out something to the librarians in the room. You know, one of the things I sort of joke right now is that library patrons they borrow books, but library professionals they borrow ideas, right. So we're always sort of going to conferences figuring out what's the next program that we can bring back to our community, bring back to our library that's going to really do the thing. So we're always sort of searching for this sort of what I call the silver bullet. But what we're recognizing more and more is that the silver bullet really is a myth, right, that the program that will work in one neighborhood might not work in another neighborhood and then, just because of where we are in the times, the program that might have worked in one neighborhood last year might not have worked this year, and so this idea of this sort of silver bullet needs to be replaced with the steady cultivator, and that is the librarian, the person on the ground, who is always trying things, you know, who's experimenting with new programs, who is trying to find new partners, who is going into neighborhoods that haven't been tapped before, who's looking at the community from an asset-based perspective as opposed to a deficit-based perspective, and always just trying to cultivate the community. And that is actually where the huge potential is. And so, as I think about social infrastructure, our minds, I think, almost go to the building, the things that we build, but it is very much the people behind these programs that also matter.

Shamichael Hallman:

But let's think about those other pillars, of course. The Surgeon General talked about the role of policy there, right, the role of the health sector and making sure that health providers understand loneliness, how to assess it, how to support it. The sort of second of the three things that I think are really, really important right now is digital environments, like social media. Right, we all had to sort of make a shift during the pandemic to do online programming, and while I think we were able to reach people that we'd never reached before, part of reaching people that we'd never reached before is that you know you've got a new group of people who are online, who are sharing space together, who sometimes are hiding behind an avatar. You people who are online who are sharing space together, who sometimes are hiding behind an avatar, you know and saying different things. So you know how do we continue to get smarter about doing hybrid programming?

Shamichael Hallman:

And then I would say this last pillar, number five, is just really around research, a research agenda, around loneliness and social connection. That last pillar is around building a culture of connection, and this is, I think, the big opportunity for libraries right now, because, as we think about what does it mean to build a culture of connection? And this is, I think, the big opportunity for libraries right now, because, as we think about what does it mean to build a culture of connection? Where my mind immediately goes is that, as I said earlier, I think people have forgotten how to be in relationship with other people. We have forgotten how to have a level of empathy and tolerance for people who think differently than us, who behave differently than us. And that requires a sort of curiosity, that requires a sort of tell me about yourself, tell me about your upbringing, tell me about the values that drive, not so that I can convert you to my way of believing or my way of understanding the world, but just so that I can better understand you.

Shamichael Hallman:

Right, there's a piece in the advisory that is what's called a framework for belonging, and what these researchers were trying to see is like okay, how do we actually assess whether the components for belonging are in place? And one of those core components is the skills or the competencies to belong. And essentially what they're saying is that, hey, for us to show up in public space, to be around other people, it requires a skill set. And some of us like that skill set just is not because, you know, COVID, generation or whoever like, we don't necessarily have that skill set. So the ability to sort of cultivate in individuals a level of empathy and tolerance and understanding and appreciation of culture is, I think, a great opportunity for libraries right now, and I see libraries who are leaning into that is, I think, a great opportunity for libraries right now, and I see libraries who are leaning into that.

Stephanie Rouse:

So civic infrastructure and you've mentioned a few forms of civic infrastructure in this conversation so far is a way to try and help encourage interaction and get people engaging with one another again. What are some of the key elements that make good civic infrastructure and why is it so critical to focus on that in communities?

Shamichael Hallman:

civic infrastructure and why is it so critical to focus on that in communities? Yeah, you know, this idea, this concept of civic infrastructure, really builds on the work of where social infrastructure I think leads. So, within social infrastructure, we're really looking at, you know, sort of the ways that people are connected and how they feel to a community, are connected and how they feel to a community and that really gets at a number of the sort of belongingness, the sort of belonging elements that are out there. But you know, as you all said earlier Jennifer, you mentioned this that we are a very polarized society right now. It is very hard to talk across difference and so this concept of civic infrastructure I actually want to read the definition for you is the community-based people, places, institutions, media and funding.

Shamichael Hallman:

As we think about this idea of civic renewal and really make sure that people are civically engaged, that they are knowledgeable about their communities, that they are being active in their community as a citizen, volunteering or just seeing people pay for the trash and either picking it up or calling the authorities and saying, hey, the trash doesn't make it out over here how do we reverse these declines in civic engagement that we have been seeing?

Shamichael Hallman:

We've already talked about the role of people. We've already talked about the role of the place. One thing that we haven't talked about is funding, because this work is a long game. This is not just a thing that can be done and check it off. This is really a long game work. I think where I'm seeing a lot of really great work happening right now is a community foundation. You know people who are already embedded in the communities, who are asking themselves, like you know, what's the next thing for us in terms of how we direct our investments into this community, and so being able to talk with community foundations, get them to direct those funding into this community, and so being able to talk with community foundations, get them to direct those funding into civic-related, community-related projects, has been something really, really, really, really great.

Stephanie Rouse:

And it makes sense that libraries would be a good neutral ground to bring diverse individuals together to talk about diverse issues. You mentioned the human library example earlier and getting people to talk with individuals that they wouldn't interact with normally, but libraries are usually city-run institutions. Have you run into any libraries in your research that are hesitant to do this type of work because of political pressure or they fear there's going to be some sort of political blowback for hosting these types of community dialogues?

Shamichael Hallman:

I would take it maybe one step further, in that there are just some librarians who are just like this is a lot for me to have to do, right, just for me to be able to hold face for these different opinions. Like that's a lot in and of itself, and I'm not even sure if that's something that I want to do. And then, of course, yeah, certainly there are local governments who are like hey, we got to be careful here. We don't want to bring any unwarranted attention to ourselves. The great thing here is that there are a number of models for us to lean on. There are a number of great organizations that we can lean on. So a couple of really great examples right now that a number of libraries are leaning into. The first one is what we call the Living Room Conversations. I'm not sure if y'all have heard of Living Room Conversations or not. They are really an amazing group. The website is just that livingroomconversationsorg, and on the website they actually have a library of conversations and conversation guides and there is a vast amount of topics that are on there. There has to be a hundred or more Everything on civic renewal to climate change, to entertainment, to faith in politics, to free speech and what I really love about the work that Living Room Conversations has done is that you know, for each of these there is a guide, and a lot of that guide focuses on you know how do you actually have these conversations and why is it important to have these conversations.

Shamichael Hallman:

I've had conversations with local leaders as well, and where I always start is around this idea of civic health. I want to read this to you because this has become a really core part of my work. In 2020, the New Hampshire Civic Index defined civic health as this. Civic health as this this is the ways in which residents of the community participate in activities that strengthen well-being, enhance interconnection, build trust, help each other, talk about public issues and challenges, volunteer in government and nonprofit organizations, stay informed about their communities and participate directly in crafting solutions to various social and economic challenges. And as I think about that definition and I say, man, if every one of my neighbors ticked those boxes, man, I would have a pretty good community, right? If I can look at, if I can look at, like all of my neighbors and say, man, all these folks, they're engaged, they're voting, they know how to connect with people that you know everybody else in the community like that, like that makes for a strong community, that makes for a community that you want to live in, that you want to be a part of right, where businesses will want to actually be.

Shamichael Hallman:

And so our conversation with leaders I guess a backdrop of like living in conversation to say, hey, we like being amongst each other and being with each other. It's like a muscle and we have to be able to flex that muscle, to strengthen that muscle right and through facilitated dialogue and setting very careful guidelines that we can actually get there. So I'll give you one example within living room conversation, there's a rule within the guidebook of saying, okay, that you can only speak from your experience. You can't come in and say, oh well, my neighbor, my best friend, last week he told me like no, you can't only talk from your experience, and once you have spoken, you cannot speak again until everybody else in the group has said a thing right. And so you can begin to sort of see how these sort of basic it seems like sort of common sense, but it's not anymore these sort of basic ground rules can begin to set the stage where even very difficult topics you can talk about.

Shamichael Hallman:

I would say, lastly, what many libraries are learning, though and what I always point to is Salt Lake City Library. They have this program called let's Be Neighbors, and what they have found is that the sweet spot is actually talking about local issues, because with local issues, you can actually move from conversation to action. If you can get people working together on a thing, then that actually is the sweet spot.

Jennifer Hiatt:

We talk a lot on Booked, on Planning, about the importance of third places, but I have to admit, maybe it's because I always just thought of the library as a place where I go to read my books quietly. I never really actually did think about the library as a third place, and obviously I was wrong about that. Can you explain, actually did think about the library as a third place, and obviously I was wrong about that. Can you explain to our listeners how the library can actually be a universal third place?

Shamichael Hallman:

Yeah. So you know, when I think about third places, particularly in how that initial framework that was done around Odenberg, you know as a place that is you don't want to just open and invite it, right. Like you know as a place that is not only just open and inviting, right Like you don't have to have an invitation, you don't have to have an appointment, you can just kind of show up At the library, absolutely, check that box, that, as long as it's open hours, you can just come in, right, and it's not like you got to have a reservation or even when you step in, like you've got to buy a cup of coffee to feel like you can sit down and use the Wi-Fi. It's just open. And then I would say the next level is that when you walk into that space that there are people who just are always there. Somebody knows your name.

Shamichael Hallman:

What I love about walking into my neighborhood library branch is I know that if I go there on a certain day at a certain time, there are going to be a couple of people that are all. John's always there, he's got his paper, he's got a coffee, he's just chilling out, and I just know that he's going to be over there in the corner hanging out and I can say something to him, then I can go to my corner and read, and this is sort of. I think the third thing is this idea of being alone together. It's this very unique quality that I think the library offers, and so I think about the barrier, I think about the fact that you know there's going to be somebody there maybe it's the library staff, who's a nice friendly face, and the other people that are doing things, learning things, learning something new and that, again, all of this is sort of free to do. I think it really becomes a model.

Shamichael Hallman:

Third place, because the question that I would ask is what other indoor public space is that actually possible right now? You know you maybe you lift up a community center, but we know what? Where are the other places where you could actually do something like?

Stephanie Rouse:

Yeah, they really don't exist. You might be able to go to a park, but still there's all sorts of issues too.

Shamichael Hallman:

It's just loitering in parks, so Sure, sure, yeah, absolutely all sorts of issues too with just loitering in parks.

Stephanie Rouse:

So Sure, sure, yeah, absolutely so. How do you draw in diverse groups of people to the library that aren't your typical library patrons? Like my husband doesn't go to the library, that's my thing, but I think all the new programming and different activities that are taking place to try and engage people and bridge civic divides is really important to get a diverse group into the library. So how do you go about approaching this work?

Shamichael Hallman:

One of the things that I did in Memphis was to begin to ask myself and to have the staff to ask ourselves, well, who's not coming through the doors? Because that's a fundamental question, right, like you know, as we look at, do sort of an eye test, you know, over the course of a week or over the course of a given month, what groups of people do we not see? And one of the groups that we did not see were young, creative entrepreneurs, and we knew they were there because it's a heartbeat of men. You know, all these people that you know are highly creative, who are high casting and making jewelry and soap and payroll startups, right, and we knew none of those people were using at least our brands, they weren't coming in. And so we went out and began to engage those folks and began to, you know, figure out like, ok, hey, what would it take, what would it take to actually get you here, what's happening in the course of your day, right now, that the library might be able to make of ease for you? What we heard from those folks was that number one they valued space. They valued spaces where they could rehearse, where they could perform, where they could build and create. That was something that was important to them. Other people said, hey, I'm just starting out and there's this software that I use Maybe it's, you know, photoshop or some creative thing that, like, I mean, I don't have a current version of this, I can't afford it right now. I know how to use it very well, but it would be great if I had, if I actually had, an up to date version of this thing and I had a team that would actually want it. You know, that had the processing power to run it, and so the library made the investment in that. That's one way.

Shamichael Hallman:

In my current role at the Urban Libraries Council, we are an action tank of about 190 urban public libraries in the US and Canada. One of my current projects right now is the Business Value Calculator. This is a tool that we've been working on for a couple of years now to help libraries calculate the economic impact to entrepreneurs and business owners, and we do that across four areas. We do that across programming right. So right now, libraries often do a lot of programs to help business owners know how to launch a business, whether that's a license or getting your packages in order or finding your first customer. Sometimes it's even some of the non-technical stuff, like how to have a creative mindset, how to bounce back from failure, how to bounce back from your first note. The libraries do a lot of programming. Sometimes it's the library doing it. Sometimes the library is bringing in some other organizations, bringing in SCORE. They're bringing in some entrepreneur, like this is how I built this and this is how you can do it too.

Shamichael Hallman:

The second area is around the actual resource. So you think about the books, the e-books, all the books that are. You know how to launch your first business, how to find your first customer, how to do this, how to do that. And then the research databases. Right, I mean, there are literally databases that your library card will get you access to, that will cost you hundreds of dollars on your own. Databases that will help you understand where you should put a brick and mortar. Databases that will help you understand how you price your product based on what other stuff is happening, right.

Shamichael Hallman:

So we talk about that. We talk about physical space, lots of working home people, lots of remote workers who might want to go to a co-working space and maybe can't afford it. Hey, the library's got space for you, right? And so we've been working with librarians right now to not only help them get that number and that number sometimes is as high as $9, $10 million, you know, just in serving entrepreneurs but also how to take that information and go out and talk to other entrepreneurs and say, hey, did you know that's a space at the library where you can save that 50 bucks that you were going to be putting at the co-working space.

Shamichael Hallman:

Now we're not down to the coverage space, but we're saying like, hey, you're in a very early stage in your business. You could go over here for free, save that 60 bucks to invest it back in your business and then, once you get to a better place, the coverage spot is over there for you. We can save you some of these things. We've got resources for you. And so I think it is always understanding what does the community need and then, what library resources do we have that can meet that need? Whether you're caring for an aging parent, you're caring for a child who has some learning, you know difficulties. You have a hobby that you want to dive into and figuring out, okay, what type of new math library resources for that?

Jennifer Hiatt:

And you provide a lot of examples in the book about programs from libraries across the country and you've already talked about quite a few of them here. But my favorite was actually the cooking related Heritage Month theme, where the librarians would pick an ethnic cookbook and invite chefs who would actually come into the library with like a little mobile kitchen and cook that type of cuisine for the library as a cooking class, and then everyone got to enjoy. So what were some of your favorite programs from the other libraries that you talked about? That?

Shamichael Hallman:

type of cuisine for the library as a cooking class, and then everyone got to enjoy. So what were some of your favorite programs from the other libraries that you talked about? I absolutely love that Cambridge Cooks program at the Cambridge Public Library. It's incredible. Other programs that really caught my eye you know a lot of folks are doing this Innovator in Residence program right now, where the library is saying, you know, hey, we know that there are some very talented folks in the community, you know, whether they be entrepreneurs or podcasters or startup folks, and these folks have skills that our library staff don't have. And so, rather than trying to get our library staff to be knowledgeable in that area, let's just take a pool of funding here and bring that person into the library and let them teach the class, let them facilitate the thing, and I saw this happening at a number of libraries and I just love that idea, that concept there. I saw it play out in a number of libraries. I just thought it was really really cool for folks to do that. Other programs, because I think you know I am always thinking about for the entrepreneurial aspect there was a food truck program in Los Angeles where they were helping folks you know who sort of kind of almost kind of in an informal economy type way, you know, operating food trucks and really bringing them in to say, hey, let's help you actually get your license, let's help you make sure that your food handling is up to par. You've got your certification, you know, and I thought that was just really really, really great. The Skokie Public Library outside of Chicago had a civic lab where it was just really cool. You know how they were thinking about civics and how they educated the community about particular topics. It was just a really, really wonderful way of stepping into the library as civic space.

Shamichael Hallman:

And then the storytimes you know the caregiver generally, mother, mother, child story time.

Shamichael Hallman:

I went to a library in Maryland where the library was actually co-located inside a mall, shopping mall, and, believe it or not, the mall actually said that it was the library that was drawing lots of people.

Shamichael Hallman:

Let me go check this out. So I get to this story time in this library and there are I'm like there had to be 60 moms that were there and they've got the kids and the kids are sort of doing their thing, you know, painting and doing some finger painting and stuff, but then the moms are over here, you know just hanging out and getting up with each other and you know exchanging tips and stuff, and I was like wow, that's actually really really cool that this program that was actually for the kid the moms are probably getting as big of a benefit as the kids are. And this is happening in a library and it's happening in a mall and the mall is saying it's because of the library that people are actually showing up and the library is actually driving traffic to the rest of the mall. So it was a really, really good example.

Stephanie Rouse:

So I feel like you've given at least 12 or 15 different examples of programs in this episode already, and in the book you note that when you were with Memphis that you had piloted 60 different programs, Not all of them were actually implemented.

Shamichael Hallman:

How did you even get to 60 programs and manage something that large? Yeah, and some of this was just, you know, it was very you know this, you know, I think leaning into the human centered design methodology and really just prototyping a number of things. Right, like you know, let's actually see what works and we just had a very basic framework of things that we thought we might be able to achieve that people would learn something new, that they would be exposed to library resource, they would have fun, that they would meet somebody that they wouldn't have opportunity to meet otherwise, right. And then we just said, okay, well, let's start playing with these combinations and let's create a couple of prototypes of people in the city.

Shamichael Hallman:

Let's look at a single parent. Let's look at an aspiring entrepreneur. Let's look at an established entrepreneur. Let's look at a retiree, someone who's maybe getting ready to retire and who has a bunch of knowledge and information. They may want to do something to give back to folks, but they also may be oh hey, I'm retired now, I'm getting ready to travel, I'm going to travel the world.

Shamichael Hallman:

Let's figure out how we do that and for the most part it was relatively, I won't say easy, but once we recognized all of the things that the library had, like we recognized for each of those people, for each of those story types, that we had books that were there, that we had magazines that were there, that we had resources that were already in place, and so sometimes it was just okay. Well, how do we leverage these things to create something very simple. You know a lunchtime program where we just say, hey, here are the five books that would teach you about, you know, how to start traveling to foreign countries and where you might want to go first and things that you might want to consider right, and so a lot of it was leveraging existing library programming to make that happen.

Jennifer Hiatt:

Going back to the library that was in a mall. We are having a theme here on Booked, on Planning. It's Meet Me in May, so we've got yours. Meet Me in the Library. And our next book is Meet Me by the Fountain A History of Malls and under no circumstances in that book have I seen anyone say we should bring libraries into our malls. But maybe we should reconsider that.

Shamichael Hallman:

Yeah, yeah, you should definitely look at it. So it is. The library system is the Ann Arnville County Public Library and the particular library is called the Discovery, the library at the mall in Annapolis, maryland. It is a wonderful case study of how you can embed and I think actually the story, if I remember correctly, was that this was a space in the mall that there was an anchor store that had just left and there was a lot of space there and the library director at the time just had the foresight to be able to say, hey, we can activate that space. I'm very confident we can activate that space and they've been there for years now and I went there a couple of times and every time I was there the place was just, yeah, it was just packed. You know people were using it all sorts of ways.

Jennifer Hiatt:

That's fantastic as a little bit of a call to action to our listeners. Obviously, Stephanie and I are lovers of libraries. We support our libraries every way we can, but you give some really great advice to people in the book on how they can engage with their libraries and support their libraries. So what are two or three of the most impactful ways people can help?

Shamichael Hallman:

Number one just show up. I encourage everyone to give their local library a second look. Maybe you haven't been in the library in years. Maybe you've never stepped foot in a public library. I encourage people just to take a look.

Shamichael Hallman:

There's something for everybody in the library. Maybe you're not able to get there physically and maybe it's just you're going to the library's website and you know almost every library website. This is not necessarily the case for some small rural libraries, but for most libraries that will have a website. On that website there's generally a research column, a research drop down, and under that you will find all sorts of things. You will find legal information. If you've got something coming up from a legal perspective and you're trying to figure out, what do I do about this? There's generally some information there. There's generally some information about careers not only job searches, but just more sort of general things of how you might research, how you might upskill yourself.

Shamichael Hallman:

There's generally something there around genealogy, and so if you wanted to research family history and dig into that before you go buy some subscription, I would say start at the library, right.

Shamichael Hallman:

And so I would say first thing is just give the library a second look, Give the library's website a second look, you might discover that something you're paying for right now, something you're thinking about paying for right now, the library already has. Second thing I would say is to recognize the value of the library in your community and to find ways to communicate that. I just truly believe right now that, even if you don't actively use your public library, you may say, hey, I don't have time or it's not for me the very fact that a library is in your community, your community is better off. The cohesion of that community, the quality of life in that community is better because a library is there. That library was not there to take the library away. You would notice that, and so I really encourage people to understand the value of libraries, to talk about libraries to their friends, to their neighbors, and maybe even, if you've got time, to join some volunteer opportunity at the library.

Jennifer Hiatt:

Always our last question on Bookdown Planning what books would you recommend our readers check out?

Shamichael Hallman:

Ooh, oh goodness.

Jennifer Hiatt:

It's always the hardest question.

Shamichael Hallman:

It's indeed indeed the hardest question. So I am reading, sort of rereading, a book right now and I think this for any folks who are business owners or stepping into business. It is a book by Simon Sinek the Infinite Game. It is a really, really Sinek the Infinite Game. It is a really, really wonderful book on just how we can think differently. He gives throughout the book, he gives these case studies of leaders who had more of a finite approach to how they managed and how they led businesses and the effect that that had on not only the staff, the human resources, but also what that did to the business in the short term as opposed to the long-term thinking. And so, you know, for folks who are entrepreneurs, who are business owners, who are executives, I think it's a really, really wonderful book.

Shamichael Hallman:

Beyond that, I would say I am also rereading and it feels like it is so islandly right now but Octavia Butler's the Parable of the Thor. It is the dystopian fiction book that was written at least she wrote this book in the 80s, but as you read it now, it feels like somehow she was able to peep into 2025. She's covered some really, really amazing things. So those are the two things that I'm sort of those are the two books I'm sort of making my way through writing.

Jennifer Hiatt:

I always love it when we get a fiction recommendation.

Stephanie Rouse:

I think we made it two seasons before someone finally gave us a fiction recommendation but, we've had a few more this year, so good. Well, Shamichael, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast to talk about your book Meet Me at the Library, a place to foster social connection and promote democracy. Thanks so much for having me your book. Meet Me at the Library, a Place to Foster Social Connection and Promote Democracy.

Shamichael Hallman:

Thanks so much for having me.

Jennifer Hiatt:

We hope you enjoyed this conversation with Shamichael Hallman Hallman on his book Meet Me at the Library A Place to Foster Social Connection and Promote Democracy. You can get your own copy through the publisher at Island Press, or click the link in the show notes to take you directly to our affiliate page. Remember to subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts and please rate, review and share the show. Thank you for listening and we'll talk to you next time on Booked, on Planning. Thank you.

People on this episode

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Jennifer Hiatt

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Stephanie Rouse, AICP

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